Turkeys have been officially pardoned from being killed and eaten on Annual Turkey Day for 61 years, dating back to 1947. However, turkeys have been receiving presidential pardons unofficially since the days of Abraham Lincoln.
"This year marks the 61st anniversary of the National Thanksgiving Turkey presentation. Though live Thanksgiving turkeys have been presented intermittently to presidents since the Lincoln administration, the current ceremony dates to 1947, when the first National Thanksgiving Turkey was presented to President Harry Truman."
From http://www.whitehouse.gov/holiday/thanksgiving/2008/
For more information about the history of the Annual Turkey Ceremony clickhttp://www.whitehouse.gov/holiday/thanksgiving/2008/.
Conservative Wordsmith Susan Baldwin appreciates your thoughts and comments.
Conservative Wordsmith Susan Baldwin
Monday, November 24, 2008
Mitt Romney and A PLEA FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY Thanksgiving Reprint
This is a special reprint for Thanksgiving. Since Mitt Romney is currently a possible presidential nominee for the 2012 presidential election, (*See My Recent Related Posts below), I thought the season of Thanksgiving would be a good time to remind viewers about the importance of religious tolerance.
Mitt Romney and A PLEA FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY --
A SPECIAL THANKSGIVING REPRINT
Conservative Wordsmith Susan Baldwin writes: Mitt Romney, and all Mormons, should not be called cultists or any other derogatory words. Read this dialogue between Truth and Peace, written in 1644 by Roger Williams, Christian minister and founder of Rhode Island. Read what Roger Williams had to say about religious tolerance. Then look into your own minds, hearts and souls, and seek to understand why it is unethical, unchristian, and most definitely un-American, to mentally persecute Mitt Romney simply because he is a Mormon.
A PLEA FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY
by Roger Wiliams 1
[Roger Williams (ca. 1603-83), religious leader and one of the founders of Rhode Island, was the son of a well-to-do London businessman. Educated at Cambridge (A.B., 1627) he became a clergyman and in 1630 sailed for Massachusetts. He refused a call to the church of Boston because it had not formally broken with the Church of England, but after two invitations he became the assistant pastor, later pastor, of the church at Salem. He questioned the right of the colonists to take the Indians' land from them merely on the legal basis of the royal charter and in other ways ran afoul of the oligarchy then ruling Massachusetts. In 1635 he was found guilty of spreading "new authority of magistrates" and was ordered to be banished from the colony. He lived briefly with friendly Indians and then, in 1636, founded Providence in what was to be the colony of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations. His religious views led him to become briefly a Baptist, later a Seeker. In 1644, while he was in England getting a charter for his colony from Parliament, he wrote the work from which this dialogue is taken. During much of his later life he was engaged in polemics on political and religious questions. He was an important figure in the intellectual life of his time, though the direct influence of his writings is considered by Professor Brockunier to have been slight: "Earliest of the fathers of American democracy, he owes his enduring fame to his humanity and breadth of view, his untiring devotion to the cause of democracy and free opportunity, and his long record of opposition to the privileged and self-seeking"]
First, that the blood of so many hundred thousand souls of Protestants and Papists, spilt in the wars of present and former ages, for their respective consciences, is not required nor accepted by Jesus Christ the Prince of Peace.
Secondly, pregnant scriptures and arguments are throughout the work proposed against the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience.
Thirdly, satisfactory answers are given to scriptures, and objections produced by Mr. Calvin, Beza, Mr. Cotton, and the ministers of the New English churches and others former and later, tending to prove the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience.
Fourthly, the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience is proved guilty of all the blood of the souls crying for vengeance under the altar.
Fifthly, all civil states with their officers of justice in their respective constitutions and administrations are proved essentially civil, and therefore not judges, governors, or defenders of the spiritual or Christian state and worship.
Sixthly, it is the will and command of God that (since the coming of his Son the Lord Jesus) a permission of the most paganish, Jewish, Turkish, or antichristian consciences and worships, be granted to all men in all nations and countries; and they are only to be fought against with that sword which is only (in soul matters) able to conquer, to wit, the sword of God's Spirit, the Word of God.
Seventhly, the state of the Land of Israel, the kings and people thereof in peace and war, is proved figurative and ceremonial, and no pattern nor president for any kingdom or civil state in the world to follow.
Eighthly, God requireth not a uniformity of religion to be enacted and enforced in any civil state; which enforced uniformity (sooner or later) is the greatest occasion of civil war, ravishing of conscience, persecution of Christ Jesus in his servants, and of the hypocrisy and destruction of millions of souls.
Ninthly, in holding an enforced uniformity of religion in a civil state, we must necessarily disclaim our desires and hopes of the Jew's conversion to Christ.
Tenthly, an enforced uniformity of religion throughout a nation or civil state, confounds the civil and religious, denies the principles of Christianity and civility, and that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
Eleventhly, the permission of other consciences and worships than a state professeth only can (according to God) procure a firm and lasting peace (good assurance being taken according to the wisdom of the civil state for uniformity of civil obedience from all forts).
Twelfthly, lastly, true civility and Christianity may both flourish in a state or kingdom, notwithstanding the permission of divers and contrary consciences, either of Jew or Gentile....
TRUTH. I acknowledge that to molest any person, Jew or Gentile, for either professing doctrine, or practicing worship merely religious or spiritual, it is to persecute him, and such a person (whatever his doctrine or practice be, true or false) suffereth persecution for conscience.
But withal I desire it may be well observed that this distinction is not full and complete: for beside this that a man may be persecuted because he holds or practices what he believes in conscience to be a truth (as Daniel did, for which he was cast into the lions' den, Dan. 6), and many thousands of Christians, because they durst not cease to preach and practice what they believed was by God commanded, as the Apostles answered (Acts 4 & 5), I say besides this a man may also be persecuted, because he dares not be constrained to yield obedience to such doctrines and worships as are by men invented and appointed....
Dear TRUTH, I have two sad complaints:
First, the most sober of the witnesses, that dare to plead thy cause, how are they charged to be mine enemies, contentious, turbulent, seditious?
Secondly, shine enemies, though they speak and rail against thee, though they outrageously pursue, imprison, banish, kill thy faithful witnesses, yet how is all vermilion'd o'er for justice against the heretics? Yea, if they kindle coals, and blow the flames of devouring wars, that leave neither spiritual nor civil state, but burn up branch and root, yet how do all pretend an holy war? He that kills, and he that's killed, they both cry out: "It is for God, and for their conscience."
'Tis true, nor one nor other seldom dare to plead the mighty Prince Christ Jesus for their author, yet (both Protestant and Papist) pretend they have spoke with Moses and the Prophets who all, say they (before Christ came), allowed such holy persecutions, holy wars against the enemies of holy church.
TRUTH. Dear PEACE (to ease thy first complaint), 'tis true, thy dearest sons, most like their mother, peacekeeping, peacemaking sons of God, have borne and still must bear the blurs of troublers of Israel, and turners of the world upside down. And 'tis true again, what Solomon once spake: "The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water, therefore (saith he) leave off contention before it be meddled with. This caveat should keep the banks and sluices firm and strong, that strife, like a breach of waters, break not in upon the sons of men."
Yet strife must be distinguished: It is necessary or unnecessary, godly or Ungodly, Christian or unchristian, etc.
It is unnecessary, unlawful, dishonorable, ungodly, unchristian, in most cases in the world, for there is a possibility of keeping sweet peace in most cases, and, if it be possible, it is the express command of God that peace be kept (Rom. 13).
Again, it is necessary, honorable, godly, etc., with civil and earthly weapons to defend the innocent and to rescue the oppressed from the violent paws and jaws of oppressing persecuting Nimrods 2 (Psal. 73; Job 29).
It is as necessary, yea more honorable, godly, and Christian, to fight the fight of faith, with religious and spiritual artillery, and to contend earnestly for the faith of Jesus, once delivered to the saints against all opposers, and the gates of earth and hell, men or devils, yea against Paul himself, or an angel from heaven, if he bring any other faith or doctrine....
PEACE. I add that a civil sword (as woeful experience in all ages has proved) is so far from bringing or helping forward an opposite in religion to repentance that magistrates sin grievously against the work of God and blood of souls by such proceedings. Because as (commonly) the sufferings of false and antichristian teachers harden their followers, who being blind, by this means are occasioned to tumble into the ditch of hell after their blind leaders, with more inflamed zeal of lying confidence. So, secondly, violence and a sword of steel begets such an impression in the sufferers that certainly they conclude (as indeed that religion cannot be true which needs such instruments of violence to uphold it so) that persecutors are far from soft and gentle commiseration of the blindness of others....
For (to keep to the similitude which the Spirit useth, for instance) to batter down a stronghold, high wall, fort, tower, or castle, men bring not a first and second admonition, and after obstinacy, excommunication, which are spiritual weapons concerning them that be in the church: nor exhortation to repent and be baptized, to believe in the Lord Jesus, etc., which are proper weapons to them that be without, etc. But to take a stronghold, men bring cannons, culverins, saker, bullets, powder, muskets, swords, pikes, etc., and these to this end are weapons effectual and proportionable.
On the other side, to batter down idolatry, false worship, heresy, schism, blindness, hardness, out of the soul and spirit, it is vain, improper, and unsuitable to bring those weapons which are used by persecutors, stocks, whips, prisons, swords, gibbets, stakes, etc. (where these seem to prevail with some cities or kingdoms, a stronger force sets up again, what a weaker pull'd down), but against these spiritual strongholds in the souls of men, spiritual artillery and weapons are proper, which are mighty through God to subdue and bring under the very thought to obedience, or else to bind fast the soul with chains of darkness, and lock it up in the prison of unbelief and hardness to eternity....
PEACE. I pray descend now to the second evil which you observe in the answerer's position, viz., that it would be evil to tolerate notorious evildoers, seducing teachers, etc.
TRUTH. I say the evil is that he most improperly and confusedly joins and couples seducing teachers with scandalous livers.
PEACE. But is it not true that the world is full of seducing teachers, and is it not true that seducing teachers are notorious evildoers?
TRUTH. I answer, far be it from me to deny either, and yet in two things I shall discover the great evil of this joining and coupling seducing teachers, and scandalous livers as one adequate or proper object of the magistrate's care and work to suppress and punish.
First, it is not an homogeneal (as we speak) but an hetergeneal 3 commixture or joining together of things most different in kinds and natures, as if they were both of one consideration....
TRUTH. I answer, in granting with Brentius 4 that man hath not power to make laws to bind conscience, he overthrows such his tenent and practice as restrain men from their worship, according to their conscience and belief, and constrain them to such worships (though it be out of a pretense that they are convinced) which their own souls tell them they have no satisfaction nor faith in.
Secondly, whereas he affirms that men may make laws to see the laws of God observed.
I answer, God needeth not the help of a material sword of steel to assist the sword of the Spirit in the affairs of conscience, to those men, those magistrates, yea that commonwealth which makes such magistrates, must needs have power and authority from Christ Jesus to fit judge and to determine in all the great controversies concerning doctrine, discipline, government, etc.
And then I ask whether upon this ground it must not evidently follow that:
Either there is no lawful commonw earth nor civil state of men in the world, which is not qualified with this spiritual discerning (and then also that the very commonweal hath more light concerning the church of Christ than the church itself).
Or, that the commonweal and magistrates thereof must judge and punish as they are persuaded in their own belief and conscience (be their conscience paganish, Turkish, or antichristian) what is this but to confound heaven and earth together, and not only to take away the being of Christianity out of the world, but to take away all civility, and the world out of the world, and to lay all upon heaps of confusion? . ..
PEACE. The fourth head is the proper means of both these powers to attain their ends.
First, the proper means whereby the civil power may and should attain its end are only political, and principally these five.
First, the erecting and establishing what form of civil government may seem in wisdom most meet, according to general rules of the world, and state of the people.
Secondly, the making, publishing, and establishing of wholesome civil laws, not only such as concern civil justice, but also the free passage of true religion; for outward civil peace ariseth and is maintained from them both, from the latter as well as from the former.
Civil peace cannot stand entire, where religion is corrupted (2 Chron. 15. 3. 5. 6; and Judges 8). And yet such laws, though conversant about religion, may still be counted civil laws, as, on the contrary, an oath cloth still remain religious though conversant about civil matters.
Thirdly, election and appointment of civil officers to see execution to those laws.
Fourthly, civil punishments and rewards of transgressors and observers of these laws.
Fifthly, taking up arms against the enemies of civil peace.
Secondly, the means whereby the church may and should attain her ends are only ecclesiastical, which are chiefly five.
First, setting up that form of church government only of which Christ hath given them a pattern in his Word.
Secondly, acknowledging and admitting of no lawgiver in the church but Christ and the publishing of His laws.
Thirdly, electing and ordaining of such officers only, as Christ hath appointed in his Word.
Fourthly, to receive into their fellowship them that are approved and inflicting spiritual censures against them that o end.
Fifthly, prayer and patience in suffering any evil from them that be without, who disturb their peace.
So that magistrates, as magistrates, have no power of setting up the form of church government, electing church officers, punishing with church censures, but to see that the church does her duty herein. And on the other side, the churches as churches, have no power (though as members of the commonweal they may have power) of erecting or altering forms of civil government, electing of civil officers, inflicting civil punishments (no not on persons excommunicate) as by deposing magistrates from their civil authority, or withdrawing the hearts of the people against them, to their laws, no more than to discharge wives, or children, or servants, from due obedience to their husbands, parents, or masters; or by taking up arms against their magistrates, though he persecute them for conscience: for though members of churches who are public officers also of the civil state may suppress by force the violence of usurpers, as Iehoiada did Athaliah, yet this they do not as members of the church but as officers of the civil state.
TRUTH. Here are divers considerable passages which I shall briefly examine, so far as concerns our controversy.
First, whereas they say that the civil power may erect and establish what form of civil government may seem in wisdom most meet, I acknowledge the proposition to be most true, both in itself and also considered with the end of it, that a civil government is an ordinance of God, to conserve the civil peace of people, so far as concerns their bodies and goods, as formerly hath been said.
But from this grant I infer (as before hath been touched) that the sovereign, original, and foundation of civil power lies in the people (whom they must needs mean by the civil power distinct from the government set up). And, if so, that a people may erect and establish what form of government seems to them most meet for their civil condition; it is evident that such governments as are by them erected and established have no more power, nor for no longer time, than the civil power or people consenting and agreeing shall betrust them with. This is clear not only in reason but in the experience of all commonweals, where the people are not deprived of their natural freedom by the power of tyrants.
And, if so, that the magistrates receive their power of governing the church from the people, undeniably it follows that a people, as a people, naturally consider (of what nature or nation soever in Europe, Asia, Africa, or America), have fundamentally and originally, as men, a power to govern the church, to see her do her duty, to correct her, to redress, reform, establish, etc. And if this be not to pull God and Christ and Spirit out of heaven, and subject them unto natural, sinful, inconstant men, and so consequently to Satan himself, by whom all peoples naturally are guided, let heaven and earth judge....
PEACE. Some will here ask: What may the magistrate then lawfully do with his civil horn or power in matters of religion?
TRUTH. His horn not being the horn of that unicorn or rhinoceros, the power of the Lord Jesus in spiritual cases, his sword not the two-edged sword of the spirit, the word of God (hanging not about the loins or side, but at the lips. and proceeding out of the mouth of his ministers) but of an humane and civil nature and constitution, it must consequently be of a humane and civil operation, for who knows not that operation follows constitution; And therefore I shall end this passage with this consideration:
The civil magistrate either respecteth that religion and worship which his conscience is persuaded is true, and upon which he ventures his soul; or else that and those which he is persuaded are false.
Concerning the first, if that which the magistrate believeth to be true, be true, I say he owes a threefold duty unto it:
First, approbation and countenance, a reverent esteem and honorable testimony, according to Isa. 49, and Revel. 21, with a tender respect of truth, and the professors of it.
Secondly, personal submission of his own soul to the power of the Lord Jesus in that spiritual government and kingdom, according to Matt. 18 and 1 Cor. 5.
Thirdly, protection of such true professors of Christ, whether apart, or met together, as also of their estates from violence and injury, according to Rom. 13.
Now, secondly, if it be a false religion (unto which the civil magistrate dare not adjoin, yet) he owes:
First, permission (for approbation he owes not what is evil) and this according to Matthew 13. 30 for public peace and quiet's sake.
Secondly, he owes protection to the persons of his subjects (though of a false worship), that no injury be offered either to the persons or goods of any....
...The God of Peace, the God of Truth will shortly seal this truth, and confirm this witness, and make it evident to the whole world, that the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience, is most evidently and lamentably contrary to the doctrine of Christ Jesus the Prince of Peace. Amen.
1. Roger Williams, The Bloudy Tenent of Persecution ... ("Publications of the Narragansett Club" [Providence, R.I.], Vol. III [1867]), pp. 3-4, 63, 58-59, 138-39, 148, 170-71, 201, 247-50, 372-73, 424-25.
2. See Gen. 10:8-9
3. Old forms for "homogeneous" and "heterogeneous."
4. Johann Brenz (1499-1570), German Lutheran theologian.
Text Version Liberty Library Home Rendered into HTML by Jon Roland of the Constitution Society"Roger Williams, Founder of Rhode Island, Arrived in Boston February 5, 1631 Williams founded the colony of Rhode Island based upon principles of complete religious toleration, separation of church and state, and political democracy (values that the U.S. would later be founded upon)." 1 "After forming the first Baptist church in America, Williams left it to seek spirituality in different ways. He stopped preaching to his friends, the Indians, when he realized that their form of worship also fell under his principle of religious freedom. He declared, "'forced worship stinks in God's nostrils.'" 1Related Links1 http://www.americaslibrary.gov/cgi-bin/page.cgi/jb/colonial/williams_4http://www.mittromney.com/http://www.mittromney.com/Ann-Romney/index http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/ http://www.mittreport.com/ - I highly recommend this excellent website as a great resource for Mitt Romney posts, articles, news, blogs, links, polls, and more.
*My Most Recent Related Posts On Townhall.com:
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Conservative Wordsmith Susan Baldwin appreciates your thoughts and comments.
Mitt Romney and A PLEA FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY --
A SPECIAL THANKSGIVING REPRINT
Conservative Wordsmith Susan Baldwin writes: Mitt Romney, and all Mormons, should not be called cultists or any other derogatory words. Read this dialogue between Truth and Peace, written in 1644 by Roger Williams, Christian minister and founder of Rhode Island. Read what Roger Williams had to say about religious tolerance. Then look into your own minds, hearts and souls, and seek to understand why it is unethical, unchristian, and most definitely un-American, to mentally persecute Mitt Romney simply because he is a Mormon.
A PLEA FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY
by Roger Wiliams 1
[Roger Williams (ca. 1603-83), religious leader and one of the founders of Rhode Island, was the son of a well-to-do London businessman. Educated at Cambridge (A.B., 1627) he became a clergyman and in 1630 sailed for Massachusetts. He refused a call to the church of Boston because it had not formally broken with the Church of England, but after two invitations he became the assistant pastor, later pastor, of the church at Salem. He questioned the right of the colonists to take the Indians' land from them merely on the legal basis of the royal charter and in other ways ran afoul of the oligarchy then ruling Massachusetts. In 1635 he was found guilty of spreading "new authority of magistrates" and was ordered to be banished from the colony. He lived briefly with friendly Indians and then, in 1636, founded Providence in what was to be the colony of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations. His religious views led him to become briefly a Baptist, later a Seeker. In 1644, while he was in England getting a charter for his colony from Parliament, he wrote the work from which this dialogue is taken. During much of his later life he was engaged in polemics on political and religious questions. He was an important figure in the intellectual life of his time, though the direct influence of his writings is considered by Professor Brockunier to have been slight: "Earliest of the fathers of American democracy, he owes his enduring fame to his humanity and breadth of view, his untiring devotion to the cause of democracy and free opportunity, and his long record of opposition to the privileged and self-seeking"]
First, that the blood of so many hundred thousand souls of Protestants and Papists, spilt in the wars of present and former ages, for their respective consciences, is not required nor accepted by Jesus Christ the Prince of Peace.
Secondly, pregnant scriptures and arguments are throughout the work proposed against the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience.
Thirdly, satisfactory answers are given to scriptures, and objections produced by Mr. Calvin, Beza, Mr. Cotton, and the ministers of the New English churches and others former and later, tending to prove the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience.
Fourthly, the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience is proved guilty of all the blood of the souls crying for vengeance under the altar.
Fifthly, all civil states with their officers of justice in their respective constitutions and administrations are proved essentially civil, and therefore not judges, governors, or defenders of the spiritual or Christian state and worship.
Sixthly, it is the will and command of God that (since the coming of his Son the Lord Jesus) a permission of the most paganish, Jewish, Turkish, or antichristian consciences and worships, be granted to all men in all nations and countries; and they are only to be fought against with that sword which is only (in soul matters) able to conquer, to wit, the sword of God's Spirit, the Word of God.
Seventhly, the state of the Land of Israel, the kings and people thereof in peace and war, is proved figurative and ceremonial, and no pattern nor president for any kingdom or civil state in the world to follow.
Eighthly, God requireth not a uniformity of religion to be enacted and enforced in any civil state; which enforced uniformity (sooner or later) is the greatest occasion of civil war, ravishing of conscience, persecution of Christ Jesus in his servants, and of the hypocrisy and destruction of millions of souls.
Ninthly, in holding an enforced uniformity of religion in a civil state, we must necessarily disclaim our desires and hopes of the Jew's conversion to Christ.
Tenthly, an enforced uniformity of religion throughout a nation or civil state, confounds the civil and religious, denies the principles of Christianity and civility, and that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
Eleventhly, the permission of other consciences and worships than a state professeth only can (according to God) procure a firm and lasting peace (good assurance being taken according to the wisdom of the civil state for uniformity of civil obedience from all forts).
Twelfthly, lastly, true civility and Christianity may both flourish in a state or kingdom, notwithstanding the permission of divers and contrary consciences, either of Jew or Gentile....
TRUTH. I acknowledge that to molest any person, Jew or Gentile, for either professing doctrine, or practicing worship merely religious or spiritual, it is to persecute him, and such a person (whatever his doctrine or practice be, true or false) suffereth persecution for conscience.
But withal I desire it may be well observed that this distinction is not full and complete: for beside this that a man may be persecuted because he holds or practices what he believes in conscience to be a truth (as Daniel did, for which he was cast into the lions' den, Dan. 6), and many thousands of Christians, because they durst not cease to preach and practice what they believed was by God commanded, as the Apostles answered (Acts 4 & 5), I say besides this a man may also be persecuted, because he dares not be constrained to yield obedience to such doctrines and worships as are by men invented and appointed....
Dear TRUTH, I have two sad complaints:
First, the most sober of the witnesses, that dare to plead thy cause, how are they charged to be mine enemies, contentious, turbulent, seditious?
Secondly, shine enemies, though they speak and rail against thee, though they outrageously pursue, imprison, banish, kill thy faithful witnesses, yet how is all vermilion'd o'er for justice against the heretics? Yea, if they kindle coals, and blow the flames of devouring wars, that leave neither spiritual nor civil state, but burn up branch and root, yet how do all pretend an holy war? He that kills, and he that's killed, they both cry out: "It is for God, and for their conscience."
'Tis true, nor one nor other seldom dare to plead the mighty Prince Christ Jesus for their author, yet (both Protestant and Papist) pretend they have spoke with Moses and the Prophets who all, say they (before Christ came), allowed such holy persecutions, holy wars against the enemies of holy church.
TRUTH. Dear PEACE (to ease thy first complaint), 'tis true, thy dearest sons, most like their mother, peacekeeping, peacemaking sons of God, have borne and still must bear the blurs of troublers of Israel, and turners of the world upside down. And 'tis true again, what Solomon once spake: "The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water, therefore (saith he) leave off contention before it be meddled with. This caveat should keep the banks and sluices firm and strong, that strife, like a breach of waters, break not in upon the sons of men."
Yet strife must be distinguished: It is necessary or unnecessary, godly or Ungodly, Christian or unchristian, etc.
It is unnecessary, unlawful, dishonorable, ungodly, unchristian, in most cases in the world, for there is a possibility of keeping sweet peace in most cases, and, if it be possible, it is the express command of God that peace be kept (Rom. 13).
Again, it is necessary, honorable, godly, etc., with civil and earthly weapons to defend the innocent and to rescue the oppressed from the violent paws and jaws of oppressing persecuting Nimrods 2 (Psal. 73; Job 29).
It is as necessary, yea more honorable, godly, and Christian, to fight the fight of faith, with religious and spiritual artillery, and to contend earnestly for the faith of Jesus, once delivered to the saints against all opposers, and the gates of earth and hell, men or devils, yea against Paul himself, or an angel from heaven, if he bring any other faith or doctrine....
PEACE. I add that a civil sword (as woeful experience in all ages has proved) is so far from bringing or helping forward an opposite in religion to repentance that magistrates sin grievously against the work of God and blood of souls by such proceedings. Because as (commonly) the sufferings of false and antichristian teachers harden their followers, who being blind, by this means are occasioned to tumble into the ditch of hell after their blind leaders, with more inflamed zeal of lying confidence. So, secondly, violence and a sword of steel begets such an impression in the sufferers that certainly they conclude (as indeed that religion cannot be true which needs such instruments of violence to uphold it so) that persecutors are far from soft and gentle commiseration of the blindness of others....
For (to keep to the similitude which the Spirit useth, for instance) to batter down a stronghold, high wall, fort, tower, or castle, men bring not a first and second admonition, and after obstinacy, excommunication, which are spiritual weapons concerning them that be in the church: nor exhortation to repent and be baptized, to believe in the Lord Jesus, etc., which are proper weapons to them that be without, etc. But to take a stronghold, men bring cannons, culverins, saker, bullets, powder, muskets, swords, pikes, etc., and these to this end are weapons effectual and proportionable.
On the other side, to batter down idolatry, false worship, heresy, schism, blindness, hardness, out of the soul and spirit, it is vain, improper, and unsuitable to bring those weapons which are used by persecutors, stocks, whips, prisons, swords, gibbets, stakes, etc. (where these seem to prevail with some cities or kingdoms, a stronger force sets up again, what a weaker pull'd down), but against these spiritual strongholds in the souls of men, spiritual artillery and weapons are proper, which are mighty through God to subdue and bring under the very thought to obedience, or else to bind fast the soul with chains of darkness, and lock it up in the prison of unbelief and hardness to eternity....
PEACE. I pray descend now to the second evil which you observe in the answerer's position, viz., that it would be evil to tolerate notorious evildoers, seducing teachers, etc.
TRUTH. I say the evil is that he most improperly and confusedly joins and couples seducing teachers with scandalous livers.
PEACE. But is it not true that the world is full of seducing teachers, and is it not true that seducing teachers are notorious evildoers?
TRUTH. I answer, far be it from me to deny either, and yet in two things I shall discover the great evil of this joining and coupling seducing teachers, and scandalous livers as one adequate or proper object of the magistrate's care and work to suppress and punish.
First, it is not an homogeneal (as we speak) but an hetergeneal 3 commixture or joining together of things most different in kinds and natures, as if they were both of one consideration....
TRUTH. I answer, in granting with Brentius 4 that man hath not power to make laws to bind conscience, he overthrows such his tenent and practice as restrain men from their worship, according to their conscience and belief, and constrain them to such worships (though it be out of a pretense that they are convinced) which their own souls tell them they have no satisfaction nor faith in.
Secondly, whereas he affirms that men may make laws to see the laws of God observed.
I answer, God needeth not the help of a material sword of steel to assist the sword of the Spirit in the affairs of conscience, to those men, those magistrates, yea that commonwealth which makes such magistrates, must needs have power and authority from Christ Jesus to fit judge and to determine in all the great controversies concerning doctrine, discipline, government, etc.
And then I ask whether upon this ground it must not evidently follow that:
Either there is no lawful commonw earth nor civil state of men in the world, which is not qualified with this spiritual discerning (and then also that the very commonweal hath more light concerning the church of Christ than the church itself).
Or, that the commonweal and magistrates thereof must judge and punish as they are persuaded in their own belief and conscience (be their conscience paganish, Turkish, or antichristian) what is this but to confound heaven and earth together, and not only to take away the being of Christianity out of the world, but to take away all civility, and the world out of the world, and to lay all upon heaps of confusion? . ..
PEACE. The fourth head is the proper means of both these powers to attain their ends.
First, the proper means whereby the civil power may and should attain its end are only political, and principally these five.
First, the erecting and establishing what form of civil government may seem in wisdom most meet, according to general rules of the world, and state of the people.
Secondly, the making, publishing, and establishing of wholesome civil laws, not only such as concern civil justice, but also the free passage of true religion; for outward civil peace ariseth and is maintained from them both, from the latter as well as from the former.
Civil peace cannot stand entire, where religion is corrupted (2 Chron. 15. 3. 5. 6; and Judges 8). And yet such laws, though conversant about religion, may still be counted civil laws, as, on the contrary, an oath cloth still remain religious though conversant about civil matters.
Thirdly, election and appointment of civil officers to see execution to those laws.
Fourthly, civil punishments and rewards of transgressors and observers of these laws.
Fifthly, taking up arms against the enemies of civil peace.
Secondly, the means whereby the church may and should attain her ends are only ecclesiastical, which are chiefly five.
First, setting up that form of church government only of which Christ hath given them a pattern in his Word.
Secondly, acknowledging and admitting of no lawgiver in the church but Christ and the publishing of His laws.
Thirdly, electing and ordaining of such officers only, as Christ hath appointed in his Word.
Fourthly, to receive into their fellowship them that are approved and inflicting spiritual censures against them that o end.
Fifthly, prayer and patience in suffering any evil from them that be without, who disturb their peace.
So that magistrates, as magistrates, have no power of setting up the form of church government, electing church officers, punishing with church censures, but to see that the church does her duty herein. And on the other side, the churches as churches, have no power (though as members of the commonweal they may have power) of erecting or altering forms of civil government, electing of civil officers, inflicting civil punishments (no not on persons excommunicate) as by deposing magistrates from their civil authority, or withdrawing the hearts of the people against them, to their laws, no more than to discharge wives, or children, or servants, from due obedience to their husbands, parents, or masters; or by taking up arms against their magistrates, though he persecute them for conscience: for though members of churches who are public officers also of the civil state may suppress by force the violence of usurpers, as Iehoiada did Athaliah, yet this they do not as members of the church but as officers of the civil state.
TRUTH. Here are divers considerable passages which I shall briefly examine, so far as concerns our controversy.
First, whereas they say that the civil power may erect and establish what form of civil government may seem in wisdom most meet, I acknowledge the proposition to be most true, both in itself and also considered with the end of it, that a civil government is an ordinance of God, to conserve the civil peace of people, so far as concerns their bodies and goods, as formerly hath been said.
But from this grant I infer (as before hath been touched) that the sovereign, original, and foundation of civil power lies in the people (whom they must needs mean by the civil power distinct from the government set up). And, if so, that a people may erect and establish what form of government seems to them most meet for their civil condition; it is evident that such governments as are by them erected and established have no more power, nor for no longer time, than the civil power or people consenting and agreeing shall betrust them with. This is clear not only in reason but in the experience of all commonweals, where the people are not deprived of their natural freedom by the power of tyrants.
And, if so, that the magistrates receive their power of governing the church from the people, undeniably it follows that a people, as a people, naturally consider (of what nature or nation soever in Europe, Asia, Africa, or America), have fundamentally and originally, as men, a power to govern the church, to see her do her duty, to correct her, to redress, reform, establish, etc. And if this be not to pull God and Christ and Spirit out of heaven, and subject them unto natural, sinful, inconstant men, and so consequently to Satan himself, by whom all peoples naturally are guided, let heaven and earth judge....
PEACE. Some will here ask: What may the magistrate then lawfully do with his civil horn or power in matters of religion?
TRUTH. His horn not being the horn of that unicorn or rhinoceros, the power of the Lord Jesus in spiritual cases, his sword not the two-edged sword of the spirit, the word of God (hanging not about the loins or side, but at the lips. and proceeding out of the mouth of his ministers) but of an humane and civil nature and constitution, it must consequently be of a humane and civil operation, for who knows not that operation follows constitution; And therefore I shall end this passage with this consideration:
The civil magistrate either respecteth that religion and worship which his conscience is persuaded is true, and upon which he ventures his soul; or else that and those which he is persuaded are false.
Concerning the first, if that which the magistrate believeth to be true, be true, I say he owes a threefold duty unto it:
First, approbation and countenance, a reverent esteem and honorable testimony, according to Isa. 49, and Revel. 21, with a tender respect of truth, and the professors of it.
Secondly, personal submission of his own soul to the power of the Lord Jesus in that spiritual government and kingdom, according to Matt. 18 and 1 Cor. 5.
Thirdly, protection of such true professors of Christ, whether apart, or met together, as also of their estates from violence and injury, according to Rom. 13.
Now, secondly, if it be a false religion (unto which the civil magistrate dare not adjoin, yet) he owes:
First, permission (for approbation he owes not what is evil) and this according to Matthew 13. 30 for public peace and quiet's sake.
Secondly, he owes protection to the persons of his subjects (though of a false worship), that no injury be offered either to the persons or goods of any....
...The God of Peace, the God of Truth will shortly seal this truth, and confirm this witness, and make it evident to the whole world, that the doctrine of persecution for cause of conscience, is most evidently and lamentably contrary to the doctrine of Christ Jesus the Prince of Peace. Amen.
1. Roger Williams, The Bloudy Tenent of Persecution ... ("Publications of the Narragansett Club" [Providence, R.I.], Vol. III [1867]), pp. 3-4, 63, 58-59, 138-39, 148, 170-71, 201, 247-50, 372-73, 424-25.
2. See Gen. 10:8-9
3. Old forms for "homogeneous" and "heterogeneous."
4. Johann Brenz (1499-1570), German Lutheran theologian.
Text Version Liberty Library Home Rendered into HTML by Jon Roland of the Constitution Society"Roger Williams, Founder of Rhode Island, Arrived in Boston February 5, 1631 Williams founded the colony of Rhode Island based upon principles of complete religious toleration, separation of church and state, and political democracy (values that the U.S. would later be founded upon)." 1 "After forming the first Baptist church in America, Williams left it to seek spirituality in different ways. He stopped preaching to his friends, the Indians, when he realized that their form of worship also fell under his principle of religious freedom. He declared, "'forced worship stinks in God's nostrils.'" 1Related Links1 http://www.americaslibrary.gov/cgi-bin/page.cgi/jb/colonial/williams_4http://www.mittromney.com/http://www.mittromney.com/Ann-Romney/index http://www.evangelicalsformitt.org/ http://www.mittreport.com/ - I highly recommend this excellent website as a great resource for Mitt Romney posts, articles, news, blogs, links, polls, and more.
*My Most Recent Related Posts On Townhall.com:
Gallup Poll Indicates Sarah Palin and Mitt Romney Top GOP Faves in 2012
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*My Most Recent Related Posts on CONSERVATIVE WORDSMITH.COM:
http://www.conservativewordsmith.com/2008/11/new-gallup-poll-sarah-palin-mitt-romney.html
http://www.conservativewordsmith.com/2008/11/mitt-romney-in-2012-maybe-mormon-will.html
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Conservative Wordsmith Susan Baldwin appreciates your thoughts and comments.
Sunday, November 23, 2008
New Gallup Poll: Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney Top Republican Picks In 2012 Presidential Election
According to a new Gallup Poll, Republicans view Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, and Mike Huckabee, in that order, as the top GOP nominees for the Republican party's presidential nomination in 2012.
"The Nov. 5-16 survey asked a nationally representative sample of Gallup panelists who identify themselves as Republicans or are political independents but 'lean' to the Republican Party to say whether they 'would or would not like to see' each of 10 Republicans 'run for president in 2012.'"
"Palin, Romney, and Huckabee -- all of whom raised their national profiles during the 2008 campaign -- top the list. Romney and Huckabee unsuccessfully sought the presidential nomination versus John McCain, and McCain tapped Palin as his vice-presidential running mate."
Sarah Palin 67%
Mitt Romney 62%
Mike Huckabee 61%
From:
Below The Beltway.com, GOP Voters Starting To Look At 2012 Field
by Doug Mataconis @ 7:40 am on November 23, 2008, for referring me to the Gallup Poll information.
Thanks also to http://www.buzztracker.com/category/mitt_romney.
To view some of my many interesting Mitt Romney posts on my Conservative Wordsmith Weblog located at Townhall.com, click any or all of the following links.
Mitt Romney for President in 2012? Some Republicans Say Yes!
Mitt Romney Qualifies With Article 6
Mitt Romney and Two Political Deists
Mitt Romney in The Mittchant of Venice
Good Mormon: Ancient Samaritan Parable?
Mitt Romney, Mormons, and One Martyr
Mitt Romney and A PLEA FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY
Shall Romney and Jefferson Meet In Hell?
Thomas Jefferson's Interview With God
Mormon Inventions For Everyman
Three Mormon Classics by CW
Meaty Mitt/Mormon Writings
Conservative Wordsmith Susan Baldwin, author of CONSERVATIVE WORDSMITH.COM and the Conservative Wordsmith Weblog, appreciates your thoughts and comments.
"The Nov. 5-16 survey asked a nationally representative sample of Gallup panelists who identify themselves as Republicans or are political independents but 'lean' to the Republican Party to say whether they 'would or would not like to see' each of 10 Republicans 'run for president in 2012.'"
"Palin, Romney, and Huckabee -- all of whom raised their national profiles during the 2008 campaign -- top the list. Romney and Huckabee unsuccessfully sought the presidential nomination versus John McCain, and McCain tapped Palin as his vice-presidential running mate."
Sarah Palin 67%
Mitt Romney 62%
Mike Huckabee 61%
From:
Below The Beltway.com, GOP Voters Starting To Look At 2012 Field
by Doug Mataconis @ 7:40 am on November 23, 2008, for referring me to the Gallup Poll information.
Thanks also to http://www.buzztracker.com/category/mitt_romney.
To view some of my many interesting Mitt Romney posts on my Conservative Wordsmith Weblog located at Townhall.com, click any or all of the following links.
Mitt Romney for President in 2012? Some Republicans Say Yes!
Mitt Romney Qualifies With Article 6
Mitt Romney and Two Political Deists
Mitt Romney in The Mittchant of Venice
Good Mormon: Ancient Samaritan Parable?
Mitt Romney, Mormons, and One Martyr
Mitt Romney and A PLEA FOR RELIGIOUS LIBERTY
Shall Romney and Jefferson Meet In Hell?
Thomas Jefferson's Interview With God
Mormon Inventions For Everyman
Three Mormon Classics by CW
Meaty Mitt/Mormon Writings
Conservative Wordsmith Susan Baldwin, author of CONSERVATIVE WORDSMITH.COM and the Conservative Wordsmith Weblog, appreciates your thoughts and comments.
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